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The World NEXT ends 


I don't post a lot, and I've tried to avoid the ASW scene, but I will do this one blatant one.
I been involved with Lotus software since around 1994. Sometimes my opinions are not well taken, but that doesn't seem to stop me.... 8-)


Click to read the whole thread.


So I found the Top Innovators page on IdeaJam.net to be very surprising:

Image:Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, "yes, he can."


Comments (15)
Craig Wiseman September 11th, 2009 08:16:26 AM

 Comments
1) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Paul Davies 9/11/2009 9:49:05 AM

hey wow - I'm 4th :D

2) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Volker Weber http://vowe.net 9/11/2009 10:33:18 AM

The world hasn't change much in seven years, or has it?

3) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Bill http://billbuchan.com 9/11/2009 10:55:36 AM

ho ho ho ;-)

I do recall a bum in Boston coming into a bar and asking someone to keep the noise down..

---* Bill

4) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Erik Brooks 9/11/2009 12:53:25 PM

I'm totally not getting this...

5) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Charles Robinson http://www.cubert.net 9/11/2009 1:37:36 PM

Kind of eerie seeing Bill Ernest's name in there. :-(

6) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Erik Brooks 9/11/2009 3:06:39 PM

Ok, I get it now.

7) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com 9/11/2009 3:19:59 PM

Reading back over that thread... you WERE trolling. I don't see how there can be a lot of question about that. Wikipedia's definition of a troll is "someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Certainly 2002 was smack in the middle of the Dark Times (tm) when IBM's lack of clear direction made any topic about the future direction of all of Lotus controversial. But you even admit in the end "...rereading some of my posts, I came across much harsher than I intended. For that, I apologize!"

Anyway, cool to see you've made so many well-liked contributions to IdeaJam. Are there any particular highlights on that list? What's your favorite proposal?

8) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Bob Balaban http://www.bobzblog.com 9/11/2009 8:26:07 PM

So, the message should be, "do NOT go away". When the attack kittens are on your case, you are probably doing us all a service. Rock on!

9) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com 9/11/2009 11:39:24 PM

interesting to see you've adopted that term, Bob.

10) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Craig Wiseman http://www.Wiseman.La/cpw 9/12/2009 7:56:22 AM

This is what you get for going AWOL on your blog, I guess. 8-)

Between driving, work, and family stuff yesterday I didn't even think about this after I posted.

@7

I think you went fishing for a definition to fit your purposes. I think the one for Troll from Dictionary.com is better:

<<quote>>

1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT.

2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll."

<</quote>>

I still don't see that it was Trolling. When you see a car driving quickly down the wrong lane of a two lane road, it seems appropriate to note that, somewhat loudly.

Gentle readers, please take a gander yourself and draw your own conclusions. THAT doesn't worry me.

From the humor side of life: the minute I started reading Mr. Freeman's comment, our cat started meowing loudly in the other room. She doesn't normally do that, either.

11) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Craig Wiseman http://www.Wiseman.La/cpw 9/12/2009 7:59:53 AM

OTH, I guess the blog's done: a comment Mr. Weber AND Mr. Freeman on the same post, and then Mr. Balaban. (and not forgetting Mr. Davies, Mr. Buchan, Mr. Brooks, and Mr. Robinson, too!)

8-)

There's no way to know what influence any of this (postings, ideajams, etc) had on the real world. I decided a long time ago that I would assume the only purpose it served was to make me feel better for having said something, somewhere.

12) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Craig Wiseman http://www.Wiseman.La/cpw 9/12/2009 8:33:26 AM

Assuming* any of these had any impact on any level....

I'd have to say, my most precient ideajam was this one: { Link }

Right now, the one I'm probably benefiting the most personally from is: { Link }

The unrealized one I wish would actually happen is: { Link }

I'm offline until tomorrow: y'all be good, now.

________

*Yes, ASSuming.

13) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com 9/12/2009 10:23:42 AM

@10 - Yeah, I fished by typing "troll" into the Google search bar. You can try it too! { Link }

Anyway, your thesis opinion in that thread is "Notes/Domino WILL become a collection of J2EE 'services'." We have 7 years of hindsight to judge whether this is true. I'd argue that it isn't, although I suspect someone will claim that Xpages and Expeditor mean that it is.

Your second major point is "IBM hasn't shown a lot of skill in designing and marketing it's products for SMB customers." Which is pretty noncontroversial and I don't think you had anyone disputing it then or now.

Finally you ended with a clearly divisive question that was THE hot button issue in 2002, following the cancellation of Garnet and the creation of OpenNTF.org: "Is IBM feeding, but not growing Notes/Domino?"

You were deliberately baiting in 2002, just as you're deliberately baiting now, as you say yourself in the very first sentence of this post. And the responses both then and now are all predictable -- including my own. (I think it's funny that I didn't participate in that thread, by the way. Oct 2002 was about the time I started dating the woman who is now my wife.)

And in answer to Volker's question about what's changed in 7 years, that's easy: No one would ask Craig's original question in 2009. IBM finally got out of their own FUD. The question now is simply: "is there still a chance to make it work?"

14) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Craig Wiseman http://www.wiseman.la/cpw 9/12/2009 12:24:45 PM

My, you're a sassy lil thing, aren't ya?

Stirring the pot <> trolling

Now, no more posting from my blackberry.

Have a nice and peaceful weekend, folks!

15) Can a Troll speak (about Notes)? Apparently, yes, he can.
Ben Poole http://benpoole.com 9/12/2009 3:14:41 PM

Ah we were all sassy little things way back then (seven years? In computer terms? That's a lifetime!) -- why, just look at my stroppy responses to you Craig, you evil troll ;-)

As for Nathan not participating in 2002, I beg to differ:

{ Link }


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